Keith Devens .com

Excellent point Keith. It is indeed fascinating how "I" or "We" gets in the way of Him. Especially in business.

Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don't practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us - and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along. ~Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

Carl Sagan...great quote from a (twice dead) atheist.

Consider True Authority:

Luke 16:10-17
Titus 1:15, 2:6-10

And finally...

2Timothy 3:16-17, 4:1-5

Titus 1:18-25, 3:10-11

You know Buffy, I have been following your posts here on Keith's weblog for a while now, and I have to say, you come across as very harsh and condemning.

Do you not know that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:32)? Why then should you?

Or have you not read the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-17)?

You can quote as much scripture as you want to show how right you are and how wrong everyone else is. But if you, as a Christian, do not have love, it is meaningless (1 Cor. 13).

I say this for your benefit. You are obviously well versed. I just hope you realize how you come across, and to what you are adding or subtracting to the (already damaged) reputation of Christianity.

Anon (how about a real name),
How harsh do you think God will be at Judgement Day? Will He not condemn those that do not follow his commandments? As for your opinion of me, I couldn’t care less. I hope that you think that I am condemning because I am just the tiniest window on what lies in store for the wicked. God will give ears to those that hear. They will know His voice and will follow it. Using your analogy, I only love those that I don’t correct. Was Christ a shrinking wallflower in the temple. Was Paul a demure milktoast to Peter when he tried to preach to the Gentiles? Those that hear the truth, if they are His they will know it. Those that are not His will have your reaction.

Quick note:

1 Corinthians 13: The term for love in this verse is the Greek word AGAPE. That is a conditional love. It is a word used by God for His creations…a King for his subjects. The subjects have to perform certain pre-requirements for His love. Not to belabor the point, but the verse from the original 1st century Greek means that I can say all I want but if I don’t follow the commandments and true doctrine of God then what I am saying is meaningless. As for reading Scripture…perhaps you should try it again in context.

The path is narrow and the net catches only a few fish. For you to assume that Christanity’s reputation is damaged reveals who you are.

Anon, let me say this for YOUR Epicurean benefit, have all the fun you can now….judgment is coming and it isn’t pleasant.

What comes around, goes around.
I guess it is going around eh Buff?

Hope you've stretched, cause you're gonna need it when you have to kiss your own arse... and those of other fat relatives...

17Clowns...

especially for you:

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-pe04.html

Do us all a favor and go back on the meds.

Buffy, I think it is fair to say that your intention is golden, but consider the delivery.

Christ, as he walked among the people, showed immense compassion. In fact, a compassion that we should spend a lifetime to exude in our own lives.

The lack of such compassion, especially to those whose ears have yet to hear His voice, is easily a stumbling block if not a total road block. I agree that there will be God's judgement but certainly not yours...

As someone of faith, you hold the IMMENSE responsibility to share the GREATNESS of all parts that constitute salvation. Not just the fire and brimstone, buit also the love, compassion, empathy, honesty, PATIENCE, and fellowship.

I know I cannot change anyone, but I offer the above as my witness, knowing that you may have not always been dealt a fair hand. Alas no one has, and we MUST move on.

We all reap what we sow, and I would not want to see someone with such intellect be hindered by something as earthly as pride.

Heather,
Since you do not personally know me and whether I show compassion in my dealing with others that I meet I will consider your reply as a well meaning excertion yet a bit naive. If you have read the posts from earlier threads when debating atheists then I think that you will have a broader view of presuppositional apologetics and how unbelievers should be treated. They are not brothers. What you perceive as pride is confidence in Scripture. One of the worst problems of the 20th Century American Church is the teaching of false doctrine. That we should do a Rodney King with society. That is not Scriptural. Scripture was given once and for all to the Saints. It is unchanging...have you followed it to a T? Of course not, that is why God's Mercy is so great. Christ came to divide with the sword, not to get along with everyone. We can have discernment as to who is a brother. Those brothers will yearn for Scripture and teaching...those that are not will rebel. Read 1 Cor. 5 if you have any question as to how we are to react to them. Paul was much harsher than I ever could be. Christ had no patience with false professing believers or false doctrines...should I? Yes, I agree we should move on..pearls before swine and all, but first you have to know who the swine are and how to uncover them so that they don't mislead any more spiritually immature true believers. That is not a job for the faint hearted. If your gift is to be meek and mild..that is something that God has granted you for a purpose that figures into His plan. I have been granted other gifts.

I have a question for you.

Can anyone that hears His voice be blocked?

Well Buffy, funny you would mention that I do not know you.

I know you all too well, and it is from that, which I formulate my assertions. I have known you for a long time. I have stood and listened to your tirades...

I know with great conviction and an ever growing base of facts that you are one of the most vengful human beings I have ever met. You are haughty, blameless, careless, and most of all, totally corrupt.

The reason I mask my identity, as do most others on this blog when dealing with you, is due to the UNDENIABLE FACT that when your feathers are ruffled, you spare no one and nothing to get back at them.

It is pathetic. It is sad. But it is so true.
No one I know, who knows you, would disagree. Except those who toil under your yolk.

Keith,
Read the truly dellusional post above. Hope you can extricate yourself from the situation...that is if you really want to.

1 Cor 5:3-13

Keith doesn't want to, Buffy. Notice that Keith has removed my yolk/yoke post (Where did it go Keith? Why didn't your remove Heather's malicious, personal attack on Buffy as well? What standards do you apply to such matter? You may want to rethink your associations before it is too late ... ), thus defending heather/17c/achilles. Keith has been ensnared by darkness and has no idea what forces are in play. But you know, Buffy.

Point of fact, Miss Heather may not even be aware of her own evil nature -- dellusion and denial are the twin traps that darkness deals players when they deign to play in the devil's domain, as Heather has done. Keith has met the demon ... and doesn't even know it.

One day, perhaps years from now, Keith may awaken to the truth of it ... we can only pray that if and when he does, his errant choices have not cost him that which is most dear.

And Heather ... she is very ill. She suffers, as you may know, for a sociopathic malady for which only serious professional treatment can be of aid. Her case is yet another example of how the psychologically crippled have this inate talent for discerning and exploiting the weaknesses of the walking wounded who are so common in our age. Keith is one of those emotionally needy wounded ones. Heather is the devil, come to blow open that door and wreak as much havoc as she can, manipulating weakness with tomes of "character" and "friendship" and "truth," all the while proffering none of those qualities and spewing only bile; that is her nature. It doesn't matter what name she uses: Heather, or 17Clowns, or Achilles or Luc-ifer. It's the same heart of darkness by any of those names.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes before Keith removes this comment too. And when he does, then why bother engaging this site ever again? Don't such actions simply prove how weak minded he and his ilk always were in the first place?

How interesting that Keith chose to remove my yolk/yoke slam on Heather, but decided that Heather's vile lies about Buffy were fair game. Isn't that interesting?

On and on and on (i.e., anon anon anon),

Talk about delusional and sociopathic tendencies, sheesh! Pot calling the kettle black if I say so myself.

Let me take a fairly educated guess, you don't even have formal undergraduate training in any branch of psychology. Yet, you choose to ponitificate in a field in which you have absolutely no qualifications. How pathetic. I used to chastise online atheists who took the same tactic when confronting Christians (i.e., claiming they must have a psychological disorder for believing the tenets of Scripture). Never thought I'd have to do the same with a Christian (or someone who claims to be of the "faith once for all delivered to the saints").

With regards to your attacks on Keith, I've known him for over fifteen years and would find your "comments" laughable if they didn't have the intention of being so blatantly cruel (not to mention your not-so-subtle attempt at emotional manipulation).

Vicious cruel attacks coupled with what appears to be borderline schizophrenic commentary seem to be your Modus Operandi. Get some help, and possibly some medication to mediate the chemical imbalance I'm convinced you have.

Sean? Do you know me? I cannot imagine that you do; and yet you attribute words to me with quotation marks. Sorry Sean, those words are not mine. Further, I have not posted enough here for anyone to make a judgement regarding my emotional state ... unless, of course, you are apt to rush to judgement, which may be your M.O., given your one and only posting in my view of this particular world. No, Sean, you are wrong. You have no idea who I am. Point of fact, I have not posted here prior to my recent ramblings ... I have lurked with amusement. But my voice is fresh.

You may not know what lies behind these postings here. If you know Keith so well, then do you know for a fact everything he has been doing for this entire year? Do you know all the people that have entered his life? Do you know all the incidents and accidents, all the conversations and concerns? Do you Sean? I rather doubt it.

You may have once known Keith ... but sometimes people change. Sometimes they fall. Sometimes they hurt. I hope Keith recovers and becomes more like what you and he both may have thought he once was ... I hope he can pull himself away from the Darkness.

If you have known Keith as long as you say, then you may be in a position to help him once he lands. Please do so. He may need you now more than ever.

Your very quick response to the comment I left only minutes prior is evidence either of an obsessive/compulsive disorder (i.e., you've been sitting by your computer refreshing this page repeatedly) or you just (coincidentally) happened to check this page right after I posted. Either way your response only reinforced my original impression of you and your tactics as being that of a dysfunctional and immature human being. For instance, the capitalization of the word "darkness" strikes me as being one of the strangest things I've seen since noticing that Hitler often did the same thing when claiming he had divine "Providence" backing him up.

Side note: Your assertion that I was quoting you is simply bizarre. The only two things I put quotes around were the phrase, "faith once for all delivered to the saints," which is a quotation from Scripture, and the tongue-in-cheek description of your vitriolic attacks as "comments."

I would like to make a suggestion for Keith regarding the direction his blog has been heading these past couple of months due to the "newer" posters. Keith, you've had this website/blog for several years and even in some of the more hotly debated threads I've never seen the level of vitriole, child-like behavior, and downright bizarre nature of some of the comments as the ones I've seen coming from some of these newer "folk." I don't know if you are able, but you might want to suspend the comments for a while, at least until things cool off, some people decide to get a life (or at least until some people see somebody for much needed medication).

Anon,
I think that you falsely assume that Sean is who he says he is...anyone who has known Keith for 15 years would call him and not post as he has above. Look at his phrasing and his misuse and application of the "once and for all" scripture (which I posted not you)..no, he is just another personification of 17clowns/achilles/flavor of the day/ect. Anyone who is a Christian apologist who debates atheists online would realize the spiritual warfare going on here and would not hinder it. (He would not misapply historical references such as Darkness or his comment on Hitler which is just bad scholarship on his part). Satan is the father of lies..John 8:44-47.

If Sean was really a long time friend of Keith he will be able to answer this with out Keith's help..when and how did Keith first profess his belief in Christianity?

1John 4:1-3

PS quick clarification...Anon was addressing Heather 2 and all his multiple personalities not Heather.

Interesting Buffy ... that would explain a lot. I was giving Sean the benefit of the doubt, but your explanation makes sense. Legion, eh? It seems that Legion made the assumption that you and I were the same person. It's almost ironic.

I will bow out of this thread ... for now ... Legion is not worth taking the time to address.

Agreed...Keith has to make the decision. We are there for him. He knows how to contact us if he wants.

Toodles,
B

I would have put a stop to this early on had I been available to. Here's what I've had on my mind to say for the past week:

Where did it go Keith? Why didn't your remove Heather's malicious, personal attack on Buffy as well?

I deleted your comments across multiple threads because they sounded like they were written by an ill-adjusted 10 year-old. Anonymously, I might add. I left the comment you mention because by the time I found it, "Buffy" had already responded.

It's said we reveal our true selves when we think no one is looking (and correspondingly, when we post anonymously online). I'm disappointed in what I've seen, poker buddy.

... would find your "comments" laughable if they didn't have the intention of being so blatantly cruel (not to mention your not-so-subtle attempt at emotional manipulation).

My sentiments exactly. True friendship is evidenced through our actions. You've shown me very clearly that you're not one of mine.

You may have once known Keith ... but sometimes people change.

It's laughable that you think you know me after we've had, what, three conversations ever? Remember that in one of those, when I started to tell you my concerns about something, you shot me down? Yet you claim to know me well enough to know how "emotionally needy", "wounded", and "weak minded" I am, how I only "claim" to be a Calvinist, and how I "have no friends" (last two from a comment I deleted on another thread). How insulting!

I think that you falsely assume that Sean is who he says he is... no, he is just another personification of 17clowns/achilles/flavor of the day/ect.

Actually, Sean is one of my very best friends, who I've known for most of my life. It's he who introduced me to Christianity and later to Bahnsen and Van Til. He's the best human being God has granted me the privilege of knowing. You shall not question his character, nor will you condemn him to judgement and hellfire as you seem to everyone else you disagree with. And for the record, the first 'Anon' was no one we know.

I'll further add that out of all parties, Sean is the only one who has used his real name.

Anyone who is a Christian apologist who debates atheists online would realize the spiritual warfare going on here and would not hinder it.

Is that what you think is going on here? Over my soul? That's laughable. The way I see it, this is merely two warring parties bickering with each other, with me unhappily caught in the middle.

...anyone who has known Keith ... would call him and not post as he has above.

MY point exactly. If this was really for me, you could have called me or e-mailed me personally. If this was really for me, why post publicly on my web site? It reminds me of what Jesus said about praying in private.

What I find amusing (and disappointing) is how you have such low regard for me that you consider me so easily "ensnared". Ensnared for what purpose? To what end? What in my actions has led you believe such silliness? I've been trying to fathom what such beliefs gain you psychologically, but have been able to come to no certain conclusion.

He knows how to contact us if he wants.

Yes, and as I've said, you've known how to reach me. But for some reason, you've chosen to talk to my web site and all its visitors. Thread closed.