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Friday, July 30, 2010 Flag waving
Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of... – Philip Greenspun (Greenspun's Tenth Rule)
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Daily link icon Thursday, December 29, 2005

Joel Spolsky: The Perils of JavaSchools

Joel Spolsky: The Perils of JavaSchools.

The recruiters-who-use-grep, by the way, are ridiculed here, and for good reason. I have never met anyone who can do Scheme, Haskell, and C pointers who can't pick up Java in two days, and create better Java code than people with five years of experience in Java, but try explaining that to the average HR drone.

Plus, this struck a chord with me:

But JavaSchools also fail to train the brains of kids to be adept, agile, and flexible enough to do good software design (and I don't mean OO "design", where you spend countless hours rewriting your code to rejiggle your object hierarchy, or you fret about faux "problems" like has-a vs. is-a)...

OOP in school consists mostly of memorizing a bunch of vocabulary terms like "encapsulation" and "inheritance" and taking multiple-choice quizzicles on the difference between polymorphism and overloading.

I feel like that's what it is to some people in the real world too. One time I had a one-off Java class used internally in some code to hold a few fields of data; really just a "struct", and not part of any public interface at all. I was told to "encapsulate" the class. I said, "Huh? Oh, you mean add some getters and setters?", and thought "Ok then".

Oh, and Joel's programming test was actually pretty fun.

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Keith Gaughan (http://talideon.com/) wrote:

Except a little easy, don't you think? I mean, The accumulator was about the trickiest thing in there and that's pretty much par for the course, right?

Also sprach Keith. Hich!

∴ Keith Gaughan | 29-Dec-2005 10:37pm est | http://talideon.com/ | #8924

Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:

Sure it was easy, but it gave me a little bit of brain exercise so it was fun.

I wanted to say this in the post but wasn't sure how to without sounding condescending. I find it hard to believe that programmers could have trouble with recursion or pointers. I know some people would, but programmers? Though I have to defer to Joel since he's obviously interviewed a lot more people than I have.

Keith | 30-Dec-2005 6:52am est | http://keithdevens.com/ | #8928

DJ Hannibal wrote:

What J.S. is really bitching about is that American universities stopped providing a well-rounded, liberal education and transmogrified into expensive trade schools. This was to meet the expectation that people would be graduated with the mundane skills needed to make them useful on a day-to-day basis in the business world. The concept of "learning how to learn" has fallen by the wayside.

Java is popular in the schools now because it is popular in the business world. But building massively distributed systems for Google is not what most programmers will find themselves doing after college. The fact is that most will be asked to build a new accounting system in Java if they want to get a paycheck.

∴ DJ Hannibal | 30-Dec-2005 10:28am est | #8932

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