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Ned Batchelder (http://nedbatchelder.com) wrote:
Ian Bicking (http://blog.ianbicking.org) wrote:
4. The UN program to dismantle WMDs in Iraq worked.
Seems like the obvious conclusion to me.
Mark (http://www.simps.co.uk) wrote:
Option 4 is by far the most logical explanation. It doesn't take much thought to figure out reasons for Iraqs actions. The dreadful intelligence showing no understanding at all of the Iraqi mindset was the major culprit, and that's really what you should be pondering if you want to understand what happened here.
Mark (http://blogs.linux.ie/stuff) wrote:
"Why during the war did we find a whole cache of chemical protective equipment ready to be used by Iraqi soldiers?"
Yeah, why might the Iraqi army have had chemical gear?
It's not like their hostile neighbour Iran, a country they fought using horrific chemical & biological weapons in the 80's, also has chem/bio weapons or anything.
This whole WMD thing was a stupid way to sell the war, I supported the war just to oust Saddam. If it were about WMD then the US should have gone after North Korea, but then we know North Korea has WMD & Nukes and would use them.
"Given the recent knowledge we've acquired of the extensive weapons proliferation among North Korea, Libya, Pakistan, Syria, and Iran, (completely thanks to Libya's capitulation because of what happened in Iraq)"
That's not true.
People have known that North Korea has had chem/bio programs since the 80's and a nuke program from the 90's. Pakistan went nuclear years ago and Syria has been red flagged time and time again. The only thing Libya did was get Fox News talking about it, give them some time and they might "uncover" the fact that Israel has the bomb (And lots of them), or that the Saudi's want the bomb.
Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:
Seriously man, what the heck were you just talking about (regarding proliferation)? You did everything but talk about what I was talking about. You don't seem to be aware of the nuclear proliferation between those states that were traced back to Kahn from Pakistan.
Regarding the chemical equipment: As far as I know these things weren't in storage, but were actually out and ready to be used, clearly in anticipation of the American offensive.
Alan Green (http://cardboard.nu) wrote:
If Saddam had nothing to hide, why was he still being obstructionist until the very end?
Imagine this nightmare scenario: China decides that the US-superpower era must end. The Chinese government reveals that they have the capability to poison the water supply of every major and minor US city, and are willing to accept any kind of retaliation the US could deal out. They demand that the US unilaterally dismantle their WMD program, and further demand that the US accept disarmament inspectors who have the right to go absolutely anywhere in the US, without restraint.
OK, that is a far-fetched scenario, but how would the US react to the disarmament inspectors? Let's say the US accepts the inspectors because the consequences otherwise are unthinkable. But even after accepting the inspectors. the government would be very reluctant to let those inspectors go anywhere. In particular, their would be a great reluctance concerning inspections of the most secret military bases, which are - ironically - the very ones that the inspectors will be most keen to see. A game of brinksmanship would rapidly ensue, with the US only ever conceding enough at any point in time to stop the Chinese carrying out their ultimate threat.
I believe something similar happenned in Iraq.
Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:
Alan, that makes sense, but you didn't have to make the China analogy. It makes sense that Saddam didn't like having the inspectors in Iraq. I also think the analogy's very strained, because it places sympathy on America for being bullied by China, whereas a more appropriate analogy would be if America demanded the same from North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, or Syria.
But get this. Say you're right, and Saddam had nothing to hide but was obstructionist just because he didn't like inspectors poking their nose in his business. You would think he would capitulate at the end when it was clear we were serious. The ultimate irony would be that France, Germany, et al, by convincing Saddam they would stop us from attacking, actually precipitated the war by making Saddam confident he was safe!
Though, that might be the case anyway! However, even if he didn't have the weapons right before the war, something happened to them since he last had them. They, or evidence of where they went, should turn up eventually.
Mark (http://blogs.linux.ie/stuff) wrote:
"You don't seem to be aware of the nuclear proliferation between those states that were traced back to Kahn from Pakistan."
Pardon me, I don't seem to be aware of what?
Try,
<http://blogs.linux.ie/stuff/archives/m/200308#109>
or how about,
<http://blogs.linux.ie/stuff/archives/m/200308#115>
or maybe,
<http://blogs.linux.ie/stuff/archives/m/200309#130>
Pakistan isn't new news it's old news, and we knew about it before Gaddafi <http://blogs.linux.ie/stuff/archives/m/200404#305> decided he wanted he wanted to export oil to the US again.
As for the Chemical suits, did you ever ask if it wasn't standard troop procedure to carry such suits? They've already fought wars using chemical weapons, it's going to be standard equipment.
I don't think they are going to find WMD in Iraq as I still believe what I wrote in January of this
<http://blogs.linux.ie/stuff/archives/m/200401#232> of this year.
Keith Gaughan (http://talideon.com/) wrote:
There is the possibility that Saddam had nothing as was just bluffing in the hopes that M.A.D. would see him through.
Iraq was just a soft target. N-Korea was always more of a threat, Saudi Arabia is more of a threat, not to mention a host of others.
The best thing would have been to ensure Afghanistan was stable. That at least would have given some kind of counterweight to the, as you so nicely put it, islamofascist claim that the US is the Great Satan.
You see, it's not a matter of whether the US is doing anything good on the ground. Each screw-up is magnified many times more than any good that's done. It's inescapable; it's human nature. Iraq was too early. The US seems to be fighting the terrorist's war for them.
Bully to Mark.
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I started writing a long comment here, and ended up moving it to a posting on my site instead:
http://www.nedbatchelder.com/blog/20040519T084950.html