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Monday, October 13, 2008 | ![]() |
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Micah wrote:
Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:
the only moral uprightness a person is qualified to judge is their own.
That's a silly moral principle. If that were true, then evil and good would be purely subjective concepts. Ethics would be impossible.
Both of your principles are so general that they don't have anything to do with the Iraq war.
Micah wrote:
Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7b)
The principle you quote is based on this verse. How can I know anybody else's intentions? I am forgiven but I am still a sinner, so how I judge other sinners? And what responsibility do I have to ensure the correct behavior of my fellow man? None, because I do not know his heart. In the end, the only person I am responsible for is myself.
Under this principle, George Bush would have no right to judge Sadam Husain's heart and intentions because God reserves that right for himself. Furthermore, applying the first principle means that soldiers in general are barred from killing, which is directly related to the war.
General principles are important for me, because they enforce consistency across different areas of my life.
Keith (http://keithdevens.com/) wrote:
You're quoting one verse out of context from the rest of the Bible to support your very strange and philosophically untenable principle. It infuriates me that you would use the Bible this way by cherry-picking a verse and trying to use it "against me" because you know I give fealty to it. Even so, that verse doesn't even support your general principle (especially not in context)!
And, I can cherry-pick verses too:
The purposes of a man's heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.
Even a child is known by his actions, by whether his conduct is pure and right.
A wise king winnows out the wicked; he drives the threshing wheel over them.
Those are all just from Proverbs 20.
Now, it's prima facie absurd to say that we can't judge Hitler or Saddam Hussein's moral characters. Not only does the view you've espoused entail complete pacifism (which the Bible doesn't support either), but, based on your line of reasoning, punishing anyone for anything would be impossible.
Under this principle, George Bush would have no right to judge Sadam Husain's heart and intentions because God reserves that right for himself.
It has nothing to do with his heart and intensions, but his actions. And the verse you quote says nothing about God "reserving" the right to make moral judgements for himself.
Furthermore, applying the first principle means that soldiers in general are barred from killing, which is directly related to the war.
If you're a pacifist, why don't you just say so? "I'm a pacifist. All wars are wrong, therefore the Iraq war is wrong." You could say it once and it would waste much less time.
General principles are important for me, because they enforce consistency across different areas of my life.
If you're looking for consistency, you should start by maintaining a consistent view of the Bible, if you actually do believe it yourself and aren't just quoting it as a way to score points with me.
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Let me give you an example of principles that would cause one to oppose (the) war, then:
1) the right to give and take away human life is God's alone, and
2) the only moral uprightness a person is qualified to judge is their own.