Keith Devens .com

I'd say that's a bit of a generalization.. all due respect.

If your not reading Dear Raed, start with this link.
http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/2003_03_01_dear_raed_archive.html#90779364

If you follow more then a few blogs you'll know he's an Iraqi citizen blogging the conflict as it happens. (currently not updated, I think internet access is most likely non-functioning at this point).

This other article should be noted:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/iraq_safwan030322.html

Basically the Iraqi people have many of the same concerns as the Anti-War people. Why are we here, can we trust you, etc. Which I believe is only common sense. I mean we're killing people over there, a small percentage non-combatants. Tends to rather annoy people in my experiance.

Then again, I saw a TV interview with Iraqi youths in America, cautious but hopeful was the mood. They agreed that though the price was high but it was worth it.

I'm trying to hint here that its not so clear cut as "everyone" is just ducky about being bombed. Personally I think long run it will be a good thing for the Iraqi people, not that our goal is to help them, but rather to protect our nations interests and I'm not saying that's bad, It makes sense. I just wouldn't paint it as "Oh look how good we are, we're helping people!" when it's more "We're protecting our nation from foreign threats, and incidentally we remove a dictator which is a nice bonus".

I'd really suggest reading both LGF and something on the opposite end of the spectrum, if you read just one, all you do is take in one side of the argument. Although the open hostility in LGFs comments turns my stomach at times, I try to read it once a month to get the other sides view.

I'd really suggest reading both LGF and something on the opposite end of the spectrum, if you read just one, all you do is take in one side of the argument. Although the open hostility in LGFs comments turns my stomach at times, I try to read it once a month to get the other sides view.

Hey, is there any good site on "the other side" that you'd recommend?

Dude... a cool interview with el prez 41... Bush uno. He has some awesome quotes about the French:

What do you think is going on with France?
[Pause] They’re French.

And my personal favorite here:
I was once talking to a group of French intellectuals, and I said, “You think we’re arrogant, and we think you’re French.” And they looked at each other and thought maybe I’d said something very intelligent. But that may well be it.

Keith, honestly I don't really have to go looking, nearly all the blogs/sites I read tend to have viewpoints ranging all over the place. I don't read strict right/left wing news/political sites much simply because... well that's boring . Just browsing Google news and reading articles that I think provide a different view then my own is usually enough.

Try my sideblog for a start:
http://www.ordinary-life.net/sidebar1.php (down now for some reason)
which you've probably seen in your reffers. It's not so much a site as making sure I read both sides of a given argument as much as feasible given my time. I think reading discussions on slashdot, kur5shin and metafilter tend to expose me to multiple viewpoints. Though I admit tech sites tend to be more what you might term liberal. When I was discussing gun control. The first site I hit was the NRA, I read up on their arguments, then I hit up some sites on the opposite end. I read your site to read a viewpoint I don't usually agree with actually . About the only thing we agree on is TV (which proves it's uniting value ).

About the only thing we agree on is TV (which proves it's uniting value )

Awesome

I have to run (watching "The Ring" over a friend's house), so I'll be really short...

The reason I asked for recommendations is because I don't know that I've ever come across an intelligent liberal site. One that really made me say "Well, that's a good point, and you've answered all my other objections, and you're not still harping on the 2000 election... hmm". I find most liberal opinions just completely unreasonable.

Keep in mind that just because I tend to link to conservative sites a lot, doesn't mean I don't come across liberal opinions all over the Internet.

Anyway, gotta run.

.. I've ever come across an intelligent liberal site. One that really made me say "Well, that's a good point, and you've answered all my other objections, and you're not still harping on the 2000 election... hmm". I find most liberal opinions just completely unreasonable....

www.its-clintons-penises-fault.com

Uh?

He's not with me, I promise.. heh

Okay to respond..
"I find most liberal opinions just completely unreasonable.
"

I don't suppose you realize the many liberals say the same thing about very conservative opinion...

Let me ask you, was my opinion on this thread accurate? Did I sufficiently counter your assertion that "how everyone who's actually lived in Iraq supports the war" is er.. wrong? Wouldn't it be more in synch with reality to say "Many Iraqi" or I think even "A majority" would be fairly accurate? Was that unreasonable? Untrue? I'm confused.

Now if you agree with me in this revised assertion, wouldn't it make sense that the conservative view on LGF on other issues may not be 100% accurate? I mean.. I could poke holes of varying size in at least half the political issues you post about.. I could also do the same for most hardcore liberal views. The idea that by only taking serious what one half of a 2 party system says seems frankly unreasonable.

I don't suppose you realize the many liberals say the same thing about very conservative opinion...

Exactly! That's why these are issues of conflicting worldviews.

Did I sufficiently counter your assertion that "how everyone who's actually lived in Iraq supports the war" is er.. wrong?

If you're going to get that precise, then there's no way you can interpret my statement to mean that literally every Iraqi supports the war. First of all, because I haven't asked every single person in Iraq, which I would have to do if I were to logically make that claim, and second of all, because it's clearly false at that level (Saddam, his Republican Guard soldiers, Iraqi government officials, etc. clearly don't support the war). So naturally my statement was a general one, which you know very well wasn't meant to claim that literally every single Iraqi supports the war.

However, every Iraqi I've ever heard a personal account of (besides the talking heads on TV) has supported the war and hated Saddam. I don't think I've linked to this yet, but that's the type of stuff I'm talking about.

Regarding your last paragraph, you're assuming incorrectly that I don't consider issues individually, but simply ignore one side because it's the "liberal" side, and uncritically accept the other because it's the "conservative" side.

I'd like to clarify a little bit. The emphasis of "everyone who's actually lived in Iraq" was in reference to the anti-war protesters who seem to have no clue what life is really like there. That's what I was thinking about when I wrote this.

I've been looking hard for a picture I saw a few days ago of a picture that put side by side, on the left, a pretty, but clueless, protesting girl (I think in San Francisco), and on the right, a snapshot of some of the video that was broadcast on the news a lot a few days ago of some Iraqis dancing around, celebrating their liberation.

The original intent of my statement wasn't to say that everyone in Iraq supports the war^[1], but that the anti-war protestors don't really understand what they're doing.

Footnotes:
[1]: by the way, given the definition of the "dear_raed" guy, that war is bombing a lot of civilians, I don't support war either

NYTimes Op-Ed? BTW, five days, Keith. Five days.

Five days what?

Five days, Keith. (Seven days from when you watch the movie... you watched it two days ago, so you have five days left). Oooooo. Be careful!