Keith Devens .com

You know what? I am not even going to try to disagree with you. you are obviously anti Arab and pro Israel, and it has become obvious that our constant arguments are solving nothing. I could sit here and question how exactly Arafat could possibly order these attacks seeing as he is under Israel occupation and nothing, including phone calls gets in without Israel agreeing, but I have no doubt you have some Israeli distributed propaganda for that one too. Therefore I am stopping this. The only solution is all of the parties talking peace. Both the Palestinians and the Israeli's are in the wrong. Done. Finished. Stop spreading the bull, please. I would rather not have to stop reading this completely.

I said nothing about Arafat ordering these. Whether he did or not is irrelevant - the problem goes far beyond him.

I'm certainly pro-Israel, but I am definitely not anti-Arab. That would be racist. But I'm certainly anti-Islam, I won't hide that at all. I think Islam is a dangerous pagan religion, and has been a plague on the world since Mohammad made it up. However, not all Arabs are Muslim, and not necessarily all Muslims really hold to "true" Islam (which prescribes Jihad against all unbelievers, etc.).

Finally, I'll say what I was going to say but kept myself from because I wanted to be nice:

You're one of those irrational peace-nicks who thinks that everyone "should just get along" without any idea or plan as to how that could possibly happen. You look at a situation and see moral equivalence between two completely opposed philosophies, and you seem to have no moral clarity with which to discern good from evil.

It's irrational to think that if everyone just stops fighting, magically we'll have peace. The world doesn't work that way. Evil only understands force. It's as simple as that. What's happening in the world now is about as clear a case of good verses evil as you can get in this world, and you still can't see it.

These people live in an environment of hate, and they raise their children to hate and kill. They have telethons to support the families of those who destroy themselves to kill innocents. If you can't see that as evil, then what is evil?

You want them to talk peace. If you knew anything about history you'd know that's been tried over and over again, always with Israel offering too much, and Arafat not accepting it. Israel is a democracy, and over the past decade has had leaders of all different political philosophies, and yet the Palestinians stay constant, always with Arafat at their head. Again, however, the problem isn't limited to Arafat, but is mainly a problem of mindset, namely, the denial of Israel's right to exist. That's the reason why there is no peace in that region.

Finally, I'll try to teach you something about life. You seem to think it's possible that we live in an ideal world, free from sin, where everyone can just talk to "resolve their differences", and live happily ever after. That's simply not how the world works. Lastly, a side doesn't have to be perfect to be in the right. All the time I've been defending Israel, I don't believe that they've always behaved perfectly good, and that all Palestinians are always the essence of evil. As an analogy, America has not always been in the right in world affairs, and we're not perfect now, but that doesn't change the fact that America is, to use the words of Sean Hannity, the best nation God ever gave man. It takes Wisdom to understand this - please try.

Ok, that post is a mix of religious intolerance, myth and error. I will not even point out the number of mistakes you made. It it obvious to me that you want to believe so strongly in the Israeli's that you are blinded to fact or unique thought. Yes, I believe that a world of peace is something we have to aim for, because I am sick of people dying. You are to obviously biased that it is impossible to have a logical or accurate conversation with you. I would have hoped that being a believer in God you would also be a believer of do not kill, but obviously I was mistaken. I am saddened greatly by this, and also by the fact I am forced to stop visiting here for awhile, or at least ignore any post that includes the conflict or your opinions that war is necessary and apparently desirable. Good bye.

Rather than responding to my claims and supporting yours with facts (Where have I made errors? What have I presented as fact that is really myth? What logical fallacies have I committed? - and you never backed up your historical claims like you said you could, either), you simply assert what you believe and put words in my mouth.

Because I'm a believer in God I believe murder is wrong, because I'm a believer in God I believe that a nation has a right to defend itself when attacked, and because I'm a believer in God I believe killing is sometimes justified.

<<You seem to think it's possible that we live in an ideal world, free from sin, where everyone can just talk to "resolve their differences", and live happily ever after. That's simply not how the world works.>>
- Then, why discuss anything? Why are you arguing with Geek? What is peace? Does it exist? If so, where? Can peace exist with sin in the world?

<<America is, to use the words of Sean Hannity, the best nation God ever gave man.>>
- What?!

You don't think America is the best nation God ever gave man?

Anyway, I don't know if you followed the entire history of my interaction with Dwight (why he chooses to call himself "Geek" I'll never know). I was arguing with him because he'd been arguing with me for weeks. You lose something coming into the "conversation" just with this.

Now:

1. True and lasting peace will never be with the world until Jesus returns
2. But we can have some peace if we fight those who would destroy it.

<<You don't think America is the best nation God ever gave man?>>
- This is why I get scared when arguing with you sometimes, Kieth... you seem to make these generalizations and jump to these conclusions that seem semi-true on the surface, but haven't really been thought out. This is a silly example, and I don't want to argue over this because I think it would be pointless, but, why should I think America is the best nation God ever gave man? I haven't seen any other countries... I've only read about some others in books/magazines... I have yet to travel to New Zealand and Switzerland, Norway, Australia, etc. I've heard New Zealand is a great place to live-- no crime, no polution, not a lot of bad stuff that's in the US... and it's prettier too... maybe NZ is the "best nation God ever gave man." How can you just say America's the best... seems a little immature.

<<But we can have some peace if we fight those who would destroy it.>>
- Ok, but some people have different conceptions of what "fight" means... maybe Dwight's concept of "fighting" isn't just killing off those that threaten our freedom, but simply pursuading those to stop threatening and killing us.

You spelled my name wrong!

A few quick things: Who kept the world free during WWII (and WWI?)? What other country, after having defeated other countries in war, then rebuilds them? What other country, when fighting a country who attacked them, then drops food for that country's citizens? No other country is as generous as the US is, and no nation in history has had as much power as the US does, yet the US stays benevolent. I just bought Dinesh D'Souza's book What's so Great About America - seems like a great book.

And like I said to Dwight, the view that we can just talk out our differences with those who want to kill us is naive.

<<You don't think America is the best nation God ever gave man?>>
- This is why I get scared when arguing with you sometimes, Kieth... you seem to make these generalizations and jump to these conclusions that seem semi-true on the surface, but haven't really been thought out. This is a silly example, and I don't want to argue over this because I think it would be pointless, but, why should I think America is the best nation God ever gave man? I haven't seen any other countries... I've only read about some others in books/magazines... I have yet to travel to New Zealand and Switzerland, Norway, Australia, etc. I've heard New Zealand is a great place to live-- no crime, no polution, not a lot of bad stuff that's in the US... and it's prettier too... maybe NZ is the "best nation God ever gave man." How can you just say America's the best... seems a little immature.

<<But we can have some peace if we fight those who would destroy it.>>
- Ok, but some people have different conceptions of what "fight" means... maybe Dwight's concept of "fighting" isn't just killing off those that threaten our freedom, but simply pursuading those to stop threatening and killing us.