Keith Devens .com

Ok, and the many days that the Israeli military refused access to anyone is attributed to what? Looks awfully suspicious my friend. The Israeli military, by the way, has killed civilians.

Yes, civilians get killed in war. Grow up and get over it. The point is that Israel doesn't target civilians, unlike their enemy. Every time I make a post saying anything about the Israeli/Palistinian conflict, you always go on the offense against Israel. Why? Again, if you want to get some perspective on the world, I'd recommend reading LGF.

My apologies. I do not want to appear for Palestine. I disagree with the suicide bombings, but I also disagree with what Israel is doing. They may not target civilians, but they do not stop to ask if the person they are turning towards and chasing after(unarmed in many instances and therefore not a credible threat) is an enemy or not. This is unacceptable. If the US in it's war in Afghanistan just entered a place where there might be Al Queda, and shot everyone there just to make sure they didn't miss one, I would be arguing against the US. Two wrong's don't make a right, and shooting without knowing the person is an enemy is not right either.

Now for the Palestinians. They need to realize that suicide bombings are not a way to bring about their own nation, nor is it a way to force the Israeli's to make peace. The war needs to end on both sides. The world, including Sharon, need to realize that though Arafat may denounce violence there will always be those who see violence as a way of life and those people will only stop one way. If the Palestinian people as a whole wanted violence then the Israeli nation would be in literal ruins. Obviously it still stands, so that is a sign that not every Arab in the world wants to kill Israeli's. That is something that should be taken and expanded on.

They may not target civilians, but they do not stop to ask if the person they are turning towards and chasing after(unarmed in many instances and therefore not a credible threat) is an enemy or not.

Number one, I don't know how "turning towards" and "chasing" unarmed people, who are "not a credible threat", and aren't involved in military aggression would be different than targeting civilians, which we both don't think they're doing.

More importantly, on what basis do you make this claim that Israel is going after unarmed people who it doesn't believe pose a credible threat? On the contrary, Israel seems to be very focused in its operations, has encountered much military resistance, and (by my count) has lost more men than we've lost in Afghanistan so far. The people who Israel are fighting have certainly been armed, and even in the Jenin "massacre", according to the NY Post, only 3 of the 40 bodies they found weren't armed to the teeth.

Finally, it doesn't follow logically that just because every square foot of land in Israel isn't in ruins that the majority of Palestinians don't desire violence towards Israel. And keep in mind that though Arafat may reluctantly, and only after he's pressured, "denounce" terrorism (did he ever even do it in Arabic?), he sponsors terrorism.

Ok, well, if you claim that what I described is targeting civilians then I will say that they are. Let's see the evidence. They killed on reporter, I believe from Egypt. The shot at another set of reporter and cameraman who had heavy markings that they were the media, and they almost killed the camera man in that situation. They just a day or two ago killed a 14 year old boy for being out after an Israeli imposed curfew(one they have no right enforcing as they have no right being in Palestinian area's), as well as an Amnesty International spokesperson who saw the results of the killing in Jenin who used the example of an 80 year old guy who was killed in that incursion.

I will not deny that it is likely that he has sponsored terrorism in the past, though it is pretty clear the Israeli's have ensured he cannot do that anymore, if he was still doing so. So my question to you is who exactly should we look towards for a solution because right now all we are doings going in a deadly circle. The Israeli's kill a shit load of Palestinians, and in retaliation the Palestinians kill a bunch of Israeli's. Whether you care to believe the Israeli's are or are not killing civilians means little to me. I have my own opinions and ours obviously clash. It is clear the Israeli's don't care who they shoot or who they attack, as long as their will be done.

Yet again, you go against facts. Israel is clearly focused in its mission, and it rooting out specific terrorist cells, finding specific terrorists, etc. Arafat continues to sponsor terrorism (the bromide found in his compound is evidence of this, as well as his continuing reluctance to even speak out against terror). Israel does not kill a "shit load" of palistinian civilians, and for you to claim that they "don't care" who they attack is wrong and irresponsible.

Again, you confuse casualties of war with the intent of the war. The intent of the palistinians is to kill innocents, while the intent of Israel is to get those who kill innocents. Why can't you understand this? Israel waited for years to respond while experiencing frequent terrorist attacks. They finally defend themselves in a just way, and you can't seem to leave them alone.

An Israeli tank chased reporters and opened fire on reporters in two cases. One time they killed the reporter and the second they almost killed a cameraman. How is this clearly focused on their mission? If this is clear focus, maybe the Israeli's should make their focus aimed in the right place. Yeah, Arafat having Bromide is not good and such, but how long was it there? Arafat did condemn terrorism, and I don't think it really matters what language he did it in. If you think every paper in the middle east did not report that in the native language then you are clearly misguided.

I ask again. How can we get piece there if they don't give it up? I mean both the Israeli's and Palestinians. I am not only attacking the method's of Sharon, though I am decrying their more because they clearly are the favorite in this based upon superior technology. I disagree just as strongly with Arafat and his ways, but unlike you and the Bush Administration, I have realized that both sides need to stop the bullshit, propaganda, and killing and move towards peace. Sharon and Arafat may not, realistically, be able to bring about peace.

Both are too used to war and bloodshed, and they may simply not be able to get it done. I know Arafat is likely not able to talk serious peace, but Sharon is equally unqualified. Sharon instigated the current violence, and for that I doubt he is serious about peace. Arafat seems to be sponsoring terrorism, and therefore need to be considered for replacement. The world needs new leadership in these negotiations, in all respects. the US, Palestine, and Israel are all in need of people who are not war comfortable, and all the of the current negotiators are too used to fighting and not used to negotiating and compromising.

The Israelis learned from the Germans during the war, they are building Palestinian ghettos modeled on the Jewish ghettos like Warsaw. Since 9-11 the Israelis have stepped up their program of extermination of the Palestinians. The massacre at Jenin where over 500 Palestinians were slaughtered, the Israelis did not allow UN inspectors to get into Jenin for almost two weeks after the alleged massacre. This gave the Israelis plenty of time to go in and destroy all the evidence that a massacre ever took place. When will America wake up and realize we are supporting people with a human rights record no better than Hitler’s.

Whoa, moonbat alert. The very fact that you refer to the "Jenin massacre", which is universally acknowledged to have not happened, shows that there's no point in arguing with you... or listening to your rantings at all.

Referring back to the posts by Geek I have to comment that a reporter's shoulder mounted carmera looks awfully similar to Rocket Propelled Grenade launcher, or RPG. In a military situation not taking action can be your death, which is unfortunate for the news crews, but I think it makes for a stupid example to make a case against the Israeli military. A couple close calls with media who for the most part shouldn't be anywhere near the conflict shouldn't be reason for denouncing what the Israeli military has been doing. For the most part, the Israeli people are only defending their own people with the only real objectionable thing done by the Israelis being Sharon entering the Mosque.

My main problem with this whole conflict is the constant bs being fed to the world by Arafat who was clearly sponsoring the terrorism, although things may have changed for the better recently. I also can't stand the media for making people like David Smith's believe anything they hear.

"The Massacre at Jenin where over 500 Palestinians were slaughtered, the Israelis did not allow UN inspectors to get into Jenin for almost two weeks after the alleged massacre ever took place."

If anyone would like to know what really happened regarding the supposed 500 person Jenin massacre go ahead and visit the Economist's article at

Economist: Jenin's massacre myth